Throwdown: Warhammer Underworlds vs. Godtear

It's the moment I'm sure someone has been waiting for, and something I'm surprised I'm having trouble finding other bloggers discussing: the battle between Warhammer Underworlds and Godtear. This isn't a definitive answer to "which is better" or anything, just my thoughts on the two games and since they're aiming ti fill a similar spot in the market it seemed like as good a time as any to toss them into the ring together.

DING DING

Price
So let's start off with the big one: price to play. In this regard the two games aren't too terribly far apart. Underworlds does have a higher starting cost, with the starter set for the current season Beastgrave retailing for $75. Conversely, the both of the Godtear starters retail at $50. So right off the bat Godtear is cheaper to get into if you're buying the starter.

Expansion wise the two are pretty comparable. Most Underworlds warbands retail around the $33 mark, and new champions for Godtear retail at $30. With Godtear you'll get between four and six models per pack (with a couple of exceptions like Shayle or Keera), and in Underworlds you're looking between three and six models. However, in Underworlds you also get a stack of objective and power cards, which do factor into the overall cost.

Content of Starters
I want to touch on this because I feel like this is important, but I'll try to not drag on too long (no promises). Both starters get you a good amount of content, and obviously get you enough to start playing right out the gate. I'd say that in terms of amount of stuff the two games are fairly comparable, but Underworlds does have a little bit more (which is part of the cost). Not only do you get two warbands (totaling 11 models), you get all their stat cards, player cards, tokens, dice, two double-sided boards and rules. So it's a pretty packed box (the older starters are lighter on the models front as they both come with three man Stormcast warbands).

With Godtear, regardless of which starter you pick, you get ten models, six cards, a double-sided board, tokens, player dashboards, rules and dice.

The boards for Underworlds are, individually, smaller, but put together (as they would be for a game) they're probably around the same amount of material as the Godtear one. I will say this, though: the Underworlds boards have way better defined hexes on them. The desert side of the Godtear board is fine, but the woodland side seems to be really faded and can make finding hexes a bit of a pain in the ass.

Underworlds is also more versatile for demoing since the warbands are self-contained, while with Godtear a standard game is three champions per side.

The Models
So this is the big one, the one everyone is going to look at first. So, I'm going to say up front that I'm only judging them by the quality of the build. Everyone is going to have differing aesthetic tastes, so there's little point in my factoring that in here.

And without a doubt the winner here is Underworlds. I may have my gripes with GW, especially their rules teams, but I can never fault the sheer quality of their plastic models. The material is sturdy and solid, and I have almost never seen miscasts on GW plastics. The Godtear models aren't bad, per se, but they are of a more board game quality so some warping is possible (thankfully the individual champion packs come with a clear plastic front so you can actually see the models you're buying to inspect for any major warping).

Pick up and Playability
Here I'd say Godtear takes it. The ability to just open a new champion and play right away with them is super nice. While the Underworlds models are of better quality they do require assembly first, and while they are push-fit models if you don't have hobby clippers handy at that exact moment then you're sort of S.O.L.

The Rules
I've gone over these in more depth in my two reviews, so this is just a formality more than anything. I find both the rules to be quite good, smooth and easy to get. Both offer plenty of tactical depth and encourage players to really think through their moves and be smart. I think Underworlds has a great system with the limited number of activations, and Godtear's plot/clash phases adds a nice layer of depth. Both have their ups and downs, but Underworlds certainly seems to have less player downtime which I appreciate.

I will say that I think Godtear has the leg up on it's versatility; it's a lot easier to change things up between games since you just swap models than having to change up a deck and swap a bunch of cards.

Accessibility
So how easy is it to actually get your hands on these games? As it turns out, pretty damn easy. Both are, generally, speaking available from most online retailers, and I've seen them both in several local shops as well. It does seem, however, that GW is really bad at keeping stuff in stock on their own store. Of the like two dozen warbands available for Underworlds, only half of those are available on GW's shop (I suppose, technically, 14 if you count the two in the starter). However, if you go through anyone but GW's official store you should have your pick of the litter.

Overall
Both games are great fun, and really I can't say one over the other is better. It really comes down to what you want in it: if you want something more akin to the general miniatures gaming hobby then Underworlds is a good choice, if you want something with less prep work to play then Godtear is probably the better choice. They are both solid games, and I highly suggest checking both out if you get a chance.

For me? I'll probably stick to Godtear for a bit. I like the ability to just swap models around easily to change up your play style, and I like the fact I can just buy whatever I think looks cool. If I can find people to play Underworlds with (lord knows I don't want to play with the people I saw playing at one of my LGS' a while back, the dead-eyed "you can't have fun unless you win" types) then I'd absolutely jump in. As it currently stands, Godtear will be my game of choice when it comes to this type of thing.

Get some demos, both are totally worth it and have some fun.

I hope this has been somewhat informative for you, and I hope this gives you some ideas for new games to check out.

Review: Warhammer Underworlds

Another post, another review.

The other game me and Jeremy played in our breaking of quarantine was Warhammer Underworlds, a game I've been watching but hesitant because it's made by none other than Games Workshop.

Now anyone who knows me, or knows someone who has ever spoken to me about tabletop gaming, knows I'm not the biggest GW fan in the world, and that I pretty routinely point to Warhammer 40K as an example of "how not to make a game." But, even I am willing to give them a chance and don't think they're an entirely lost cause.

So once again Jeremy has a ton of stuff, and all the models were painted by him.

Just a quick note, I won't be making direct comparisons to Godtear here, despite them being fairly direct competition. There will be an upcoming post with comparisons between the two.

Garrak's Reavers, one of the first warbands in the game.

To start each player needs to choose a warband of predetermined models, of which there are currently 24 available covering a variety of factions from the Age of Sigmar setting. Not every faction is represented yet, but a decent number of choices exist. I'm not super keen on the warbands being predetermined because it means we saw a lot of Sigmarines, er Stormcast, real early and there are four of those in the game currently.

Each fighter has a stat card which has two sides, the normal side and the fighter's inspired side. Different warbands have different requirements to inspire fighters, and once they are they usually hit harder and gain extra abilities in combat. Below you can see both sides of the card of Garrek (and yes someone got paid legal tender to come up with the name "Gorebeard" and I'm utterly disgusted).

Instead of switching models around to change up ones play style and strategy in a game, players instead change up their decks of cards. Each player has two decks they work with during a game: an objective deck (how one scores glory points) and a power deck which contains cards you can play to give fighters a temporary boost or upgrade them permanently. And this is something that I'm not entirely sold on. It's a neat idea, and it does add some variety to the game, but I'd really rather just swap out models to change my strategy. n top of that it becomes a case of "buy this box of models you might not want to get a couple of cards that are really good" and that's never a good thing to me. Maybe it's not as bad as I think it is from an outsider perspective, but a lot of the more useful generic cards only come in the starter sets, so if those don't have warbands you care about then they aren't really a good investment. It also means that swapping things around requires a fair bit of faffing about, and god help you if you share cards between decks for multiple warbands.

Okay, on to actual gameplay. I will say right up front, I found the gameplay to be quite good. I went in expecting the usual GW fare: IGOUGO and clunky ass phase system. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it does neither of those things, so good on ya GW for having game design from the 21st century!

Each turn both players get four activation tokens, and when they choose to do something with a model they have to spend one of those tokens. So, moving a model will cost an activation, attacking another, you can do charges to move and attack with a single activation at the cost of not being able to do anything else with that fighter during that turn. This is a really nice mechanic because it forces players to think their turns through. If you have a warband with six models not all of them will go each turn, so you need to make sure you use those activations wisely. If you have a warband with only three models you also need to plan out how to use those activations because you can have a model activate twice, but things like moving can only be done once in a turn. It adds a surprising layer to tactical depth that I wasn't expecting.

A player board showing decks, activation tokens and glory points.

Combat is fairly smooth and easily handled, and I am so glad it isn't a clunky mess of comparing stats on a table. Fighters have attacks listed on their cards showing the range in hexes, how many attack dice they roll, what symbol they need on the dice to succeed and how much damage the attack does. It's all fairly self contained and easy to follow.

Each model also has a defense stat, showing how many defense dice they roll (for there are three different dice when you factor in magic dice, but we didn't have any experience with that between the warbands we ran) and what symbol they need.

Combat is quick, which makes the game go by without feeling like it's dragging. There's nothing terribly complex, although the support rules seem a little muddled or poorly worded. They remind me of the blocking rules from Blood Bowl, which are the one part of the rules of that game which I really don't like because it always seems to muddle things. It's entirely possible these ones aren't as bad, but we did have to spend a few minutes trying to figure out how much support fighters got when there was a bit of a cluster of a combat.

Some fighters in the thick of the fight, throwing dice and spilling blood.

Another thing I could say about the game that might be a criticism is that it does seem like there is a good number of tokens to keep track of, and if you have a lot of guys moving and charging things can little a bit cluttered. This doesn't really impact gameplay at all, and I suppose one could just put charge and move tokens on the stat cards if they don't want the board getting filled up.

Cost wise the game can be a bit hit and miss. A starter box retails at $75, which is a pretty chunk of change right up front. Especially if that box doesn't contain warbands you care about. You can buy dice separate, and GW even sold game boards separate but in classic GW pricing they were $35 for a single board (each game requires each player to have a board, so all the pictures here are showing two boards on the table). Each warband retails at around the $33 mark, which isn't terrible depending on the warband. For a three model Stormcast warband that's a bit of a punch in the dick, but for stuff like the Godsworn Hunt that has something like five or six models it's not so bad. They do also come with a fair number of cards to add to that cost, and unlike some folks online I understand that those do have to be factored into the cost somehow.

The Reavers make a hard push while Garrek holds an objective.

All in all, I will say I was quite surprised and pleased at much fun we had with Underworlds. The rules are smooth and easy to get (if not laid out super well in some places), the game plays fast, it doesn't have the GW "clunky, antiquated system from the 80's because grogs can't handle change" thing going on and the tactical depth stunned me. Yeah it's a bit pricey to start with, and if you don't like warbands in the starters then getting a good starting collection of cards will mean buying multiple warbands and there are some cards only in those starters which sucks a bit.

Overall, solid game worth checking out. If you've got someone in your playgroup that might be willing to split a starter with you, or just has one then that can really help. If someone at your LGS (when those are allowed to be a thing again) is doing a demo it's worth checking out. If you like the Age of Sigmar setting and style and want something fast and easy with nice models (detail wise and quality wise, if not always design wise) then this is worth looking into. 

Review: Marvel Crisis Protocol

So the other day my buddy Jeremy and I decided to be bad and break quarantine (not that one was ever established in this bloody state) to do some gaming. He had some games we wanted me to try, and among those was Marvel Crisis Protocol from Atomic Mass Games. So, we opted to throw down and give the beginner scenario a whirl.

One thing right off the bat I will say is that the model are quite nice, especially once painted up by someone with some actual talent. Jeremy's got every model currently available (he went in hard), but we just used the suggested models from the starter box.

If you want to check out more of Jeremy's work on Crisis Protocol and various other games, check out his Instagram page.

A selection of models from the starter set.

The game actually plays pretty quick, and uses some interesting mechanics. Each character has a stat card that details their attacks, defenses and super powers. The cards are double sided, with one side being their starting stats and the other side is flipped to after the model has received enough wounds to get dazed the first time. Everything's pretty well laid out, but the cards are pretty big which is a minor quibble.

Every turn characters generate power tokens they can use to do more powerful attacks or activate their super powers, and in an interesting twist models also gain power tokens anytime they get wounded which means as they get hurt they can end up doing more incredible things. It's all very appropriate to the genre, really.

Characters activate in an alternating activation system, so there's very little downtime which keeps players engaged.

An overview of the table, turn two.

One of the most engaging things about the game is that all the terrain is interactive, meaning models can pick up terrain pieces and chuck them around the table at each other. It's actually pretty neat, and as terrain is thrown around it gets destroyed which can open some strategic options for opening up fire lanes for more ranged characters like Hawkeye or Iron Man. It also helps with that comic-book feel, and it's just damn fun to have Doctor Octopus chuck a dumpster at Black Widow.

Iron Man lines up a shot against Baron Zemo.

                                       

All movement and range is done via templates that are included in the starter, or you guy buy them separate if you just want to grab some two-packs of characters. It feels like something made by Fantasy Flight, which seeing how both FFG and AMG are owned by the same company might mean there's some crossover. It does mean no need for a measuring tape, but it does also just add to the pile of stuff needed to play.

Speaking off piles of stuff, holy damn can this game get heavy on the tokens. Tokens to track wounds, track power, track status effects (of which there are many) and some that are character specific and so on. Cards can pretty quickly get crowded with tokens, which is a bit of a pain to be honest. Not deal breaking, mind, but obnoxious. It also means you, the player, need to find something to store all those tokens in, and if you don't buy the starter box then you don't get those tokens.

Seriously, all the tokens.

Combat is done by rolling the special dice that come with the game, but can also be purchased separate if you wish, with each attack or super power listing what type it is (physical, energy or mystical) and how many dice you roll along with the range of the attack. Attacks can hit, critical hits let you roll an extra dice (the one time, no continuously exploding dice) and the wild face lets you count it as a success and often will let you do an extra thing (Captain America's "Shield Throw" attack, for example, lets you make another attack against a target within range 2 of the first target if you get a wild). The dice are used for both attack and defense, so they also have a defense face but a model can still benefit from crits and wilds. It's all pretty smooth, and the wilds adding that extra little perk is a nice touch.

Something that took me by surprise is that the game lets you just make a team with whoever you want. There are benefits to running specific teams, usually in the form of a model having a super power that benefits from having other models from that team around, but otherwise your free to mix and match as you see fit. A standard game is, I believe, 17 points, and no player can ever have more than ten models in their list. Keeps things nice and small, which is nice, and gives people lots of freedom compared to something like the Batman Miniatures Game which has very specific team options.

Despite what it looks like, Iron Man and Spider Man are not on the same team here.

 The only other thing I can really think of as a fault for the game is the price. The starter set, which does come with a ton of stuff, retails at a hundred bucks. Sure you get terrain, templates, rulebook (although the full rulebook is available online as a living rulebook), dice and ten models but it's still a bit of a tough sell. The character packs range in price, with a two pack of normal human sized characters being $35, some of the single bigger guys like Hulk are $35 on their own, and some sets are more (Black Dwarf and Ebony Maw are $50, while Thanos is $65 -although he does come with a bitchin' throne-). So it can get a bit pricey to build up a team.

The other big cost factor is terrain. This is a game that benefits from a lot of it, and you'll want some big stuff that's too big to be tossed around which can get a bit steep. The starter comes with several pieces, but the tables I've been seeing online look like you'll want quite a bit more.

Cars, buildings, light posts. And this is the smaller stuff in the game.

Overall, I will say that I was pretty impressed with Crisis Protocol. The game plays quick and smooth, the models are lovely and it was a damn fun little romp. I like that it's all objective based as well, so it seems less likely to attract the "If I just table you I win lol" types. If you're into Marvel comics (the designs are much more based on the comics than the movies) and miniatures games this is certainly worth checking out. It ticks the right boxes rules wise, and I do love some of these characters. Yeah some of my favorites aren't in it yet (no X-Men stuff yet, nor Warmachine for some reason and some of my favorite Spidey villains have yet to put in an appearance), but if the game keeps chugging along like it is I can see the roster really expanding to cover just about everyone's taste of Marvel characters. Absolutely worth getting a demo if someone at your LGS is offering.

Two villains fight on top of a news stand, and I forgot the punch-line.